Sunday, February 24, 2008

5am Study

This week at 5am, we were discussing the origin of sin and how we are all under the condemnation of Adams sin, unless we are born again. One of the things we were trying to figure out is the question of what sin did Adam commit? Was it disobedience by eating the fruit? Or was it letting Eve eat it? Then, we moved on to the question: where did sin come from? The big question is did God create sin, for he is the creator of everything? A verse that was brought up was Isa. 45:7: “I form light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil. I the Lord do all these things”. I looked at eleven different translations and six of them contain the word evil. The other five use different words such as calamity, bad times, disaster, and woe. This is a big difference to me, so the question still remains, Did God create evil? For me I would have to say yes. Now I know that some people say that he did not create it but that he allowed it. I just don’t get that statement, where did God allow it to come from? God allows satan to tempt his children and to rule here on earth, but he created satan. Did satan try to one up God and create evil/sin? Why was the tree of knowledge even in the garden? Did God give them a choice to sin or not to sin? That brings up another point. Adam and Eve only had one commandment, "that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat of it." After being disobedient, the next sin that was committed was murder. In my eyes that is a big difference. But I have to think that God knew this was going to happen before he even created Adam and Eve. I realize thatI can go on and on about this topic. I just thank God we can look at the cross, and see where sin stops. The one who was perfect, the one who I love, the one who I point to, the one from above. JESUS! We cannot keep God's commandment. We must put our faith in Christ. Adam and Eve only had one, and they could not keep it. The study of sin helps us realize we need a savior desperately, that there is no good that is in us. Examine your heart, you are a sinner. Do not ever forget it, for when you do, you can boast in yourself and not in the Lord.

Next week we will still be talking about sin at 5am so please comment to help us out.


Jeff Broome said...

Whether God created sin or just allowed it, the bigger picture is that it was done for the sole purpose of bringing glory to Himself. God reserves the wicked for the day of destruction and He hardened Pharoh's heart so that "I may show my power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth". It is easy to shake our fist at God and call Him unjust if we see ourselves as the center of the gospel. However, as the true gospel penetrates our lives, we realize more and more just how utterly sinful we are and at the same time the cross becomes sweeter and more beautiful to behold. That is grace and that is the gospel. Were it not for sin, we would not know the beauty of His grace.

Conner Cutoff said...

Brother Chris,

Stick to the text. We know from the scriptures that the drama of redemption is unfolding before the angelic host. Read Eph 3. God by the means of his own grace and glory is putting on a display before the angelic host(where the mutiny began). Remember there is a very real group of angels that did follow Luicifer.

Like James Boice says, if God would have stomped out Lucifer on the spot that would have only displayed his omnipotence.

But allowing the angles to watch and see Lucifer's foolishness, they can observe the perfections of God in all his glory and wisdom (his mercy, wisdom, grace, power, love, forgiveness,and sovereignty)

We should read Gen and say, " man lived in utter heaven and fellowship with God, temptation came and mankind chose the lies of Satan, rather than the wisdom of God. God did not end it there. He promised one who would come and be all things Adam was not. He would be our prophet, priest and King."

It is the "Meta-Narative". It is His-Story. Does the text say he created evil? There you have your answer. We have to be careful not to speak where the Bible is silent. However I agree with Broome, even evil men are being prepared for wrath. That is said in scripture, but I'm not going to build an explicit theology off of that.


JP said...

I am always encouraged when I think about my brother Chris. I can't wait to see you. Here are a few thoughts about the Isaiah passage:

Isaiah gives us a few clues as to what he is intending to communicate. In 45:7, light is contrasted with darkness, and "evil" is contrasted with "peace." This is common in Hebrew literature, and it offers insight to the translator. As you mentioned in your original posting, the actual Hebrew word can be translated as calamity, evil, bad times, etc. However, given the context, calamity seems most appropriate when contrasted with peace.

However, I do not want to diminish God's absolute sovereignty in this passage simply because the word "calamity" is more user-friendly than the word "evil." God absolutely wields evil and uses it for His own purposes (namely, His glory, as Jeff mentioned). However, God is blameless in his interaction with evil. This is the message of James 1. So, we affirm that God is sovereign over all evil, but He is also good and uncontaminated by that evil.

You always have to interpret difficult passages of Scripture in light of other portions of Scripture that are clear. This is called the Analogy of Faith. The Westminster Confession says it like this in section IX of chapter 1: "The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself: and therefore, when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched and known by other places that speak more clearly."

I think this is what Garrett was getting at with his allusion to the "Meta-Narrative" of Scripture. You have to understand difficult portions of Scripture within the context of God's overarching redemptive plan.


Conner Cutoff said...

brother... that IS exactly what I am saying.

Amen Glory Amen!

Pass the biscuits!

Conner Cutoff said...

Oh yeah,

This is great text to consider our redemption story in Christ, it reminds me that they "the angels" long to look at this redemption.

God through His people powered by the Spirit, is putting on a "glory clinic". Kinda like Chris when he playing ball, puts on a clinc of sorts.

10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look .

1 Peter 1:10-12 (NASB)

ap5 said...

I want a biscuit too!!!

Great question Chris.

Great responses Broome, G-man and JP.

There's not much I would add except that when we are thinking about God and creation in the context of the origin of evil, it helps to remember Genesis 1:31a: "And God saw everything that He had made, and behold, it was very good."

ap5 said...

In addition, I would highlight that the passage doesn't say that everything God made was perfect, but that everything was good.

Anonymous said...

Garrett, you are a biscuit.

Conner Cutoff said...

That's right... a Biscuit with Jam!

Like uncle ron used to say,

"it dont matter if you got the best jame in town, if spread over too much bread... it aint doin nobody any good."

GLORY!!! + Tounges!!!

Timothy M. & Laurie K. Howard said...

I must say that reading everyone's response I am two things:

1. Hungry (that is a fat joke), all this talk of biscuts and jam!

2. Extremely proud of everyone's thoughts. I love to see those guys I grew up with and became close to in college speak so strong of the scriptures. Guys, take a step back and look at the big picture in the is thread of comments. God has done a great work in all of our lives. God has taken our sinfulness and our unrighteousness and has spread his fame and glory through your lives. That's the beauty of the Cross, that's the beauty of God's victory over sin and death. I'm so proud to call you guys friends. I wish we had our time together again, but obviously God's got another plan.

Chris waking up in time to go to a bible study @ 5am. Jeff talking intelligently about such a difficult subject. I know guys who have graduated with their D.Min. who couldn't have given such a great comment.

Garrett, since his days at the Fundy Camp (or bible college) and sitting on the front row of FBC Jax swinging his shirt over his head because the FBC Jax Quartet sang about searchin' to they found Jesus. Bro, you've come so far - I'm proud to call you my closest friend outside my wife.

Jerry - Who are you? Your not that kid I left in Jax when I moved to Wake Forest. Bro, I'm so impressed with your wisdom

Al - Great addition to the thread, I love to see that confidence in you!

Love you guys.

Conner Cutoff said...


thanks for the encouragement.

The big surprise is to see you change over to the Reformed side. Mr. Numbers- you've changed and your also a bad influence(wait... someone else accused you of that). Can't wait to see you in Raleigh.

Tim- I'm glad you did not conform to Captain Cuff Links ( you know who).

The song at FBC that got me jumpin was "Jesus the One and Only".

For the record, I have always hated "searchin". Even the arrangement was bad. However back then I was a 4 1/2 pointer and now I am a 5 3/4 pointer. What ever that means.